Comments on: What Lurks Beneath the Bubbles and Froth? http://joecell.freeblogit.com/2008/03/22/a-critical-look-at-the-joe-cell-phenomenon/ - a critical look at the Joe Cell phenomenon - Sat, 22 Nov 2008 10:37:04 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Brendan http://joecell.freeblogit.com/2008/03/22/a-critical-look-at-the-joe-cell-phenomenon/#comment-9 Brendan Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:23:03 +0000 http://joecell.freeblogit.com/2008/03/22/a-critical-look-at-the-joe-cell-phenomenon/#comment-9 Hey there Peter, Thanks for your detailed response to my post. I might direct my UK inventor mate to your website, as has real good insights into this area of investigation. I'm intrigued by the methanol idea and will check the link you gave me. I realise water injection has been around a while, ut usually it seems only with regard to providing cooling or reducing diesel knock. A family member recently bought an aquatune unit - water injection/spray - which we'll fit late this month in a '96 Toyota Camry V6. It will be interesting to see how the results play out. I have seen the youtube video you mention - like I mentioned, Steve Ryan seems to have steered toward biofuel from the waterfuel he was trying to make in the link I put on your website. I gather you saw that? Sorry I forgot to add the link to the 60minutes item ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW_LQqJk740 Hey there Peter, Thanks for your detailed response to my post. I might direct my UK inventor mate to your website, as has real good insights into this area of investigation. I’m intrigued by the methanol idea and will check the link you gave me. I realise water injection has been around a while, ut usually it seems only with regard to providing cooling or reducing diesel knock. A family member recently bought an aquatune unit - water injection/spray - which we’ll fit late this month in a ‘96 Toyota Camry V6. It will be interesting to see how the results play out. I have seen the youtube video you mention - like I mentioned, Steve Ryan seems to have steered toward biofuel from the waterfuel he was trying to make in the link I put on your website. I gather you saw that?

Sorry I forgot to add the link to the 60minutes item ;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW_LQqJk740

]]> By: Peter Hunter http://joecell.freeblogit.com/2008/03/22/a-critical-look-at-the-joe-cell-phenomenon/#comment-8 Peter Hunter Wed, 16 Jul 2008 04:29:38 +0000 http://joecell.freeblogit.com/2008/03/22/a-critical-look-at-the-joe-cell-phenomenon/#comment-8 Brendan, 'you-tube item aired on 60 minutes here in New Zealand about a NZ inventor' - did you mean Steve Ryan? From the info on his site (www.biosfuel.org) He seems to be mixing up a water brew from waste oil. Dont know much more than this... 'but water injection appears to have much potential' - good luck with it - perhaps you can keep us informed via the web! There are a few inventors experimenting with fuel/water mixtures, but there is also controversy as well. And, of course, there are already devices on the market that spray water directly into the air filter. 'actually making HHO gas then inducting isn’t looking useful' - as you probably already know, making HHo by conventional means, ie DC current, requires an enourmous amount of electricity to produce meaningful quantities of gas, and is usually very inefficient due to loss of energy as waste heat in the cell's resistance (I^2R losses). So, this is why, for my research dollar, I would probably lean more toward investigating resonant, rather than static, water separation methods. However, If you are considering going along the more conservative research path into biofuels then may I recommend a book & DVD called "Alcohol can Be A Gas" by David Blume (www.alcoholcanbeagas.com). He has reseached ethanol as a clean renewable fuel since the oil peak scare of the 70's. I have a copy myself and it is quite detailed. Blume claims big-business tried to prevent its release. But now it is out. He also claims that Rockerfeller backed prohibition to get rid of alcohol so he could sell his waste products as motor fuel! If I had a choice between (stored) hydrogen and ethanol then I would most probably opt for the later because it is safer to handle, requires least modification to the vehicle, and most importantly: is renewable. In short, ethanol is liquid sunshine, and the emissions are super low! Best research, Peter Hunter. Brendan,

‘you-tube item aired on 60 minutes here in New Zealand about a NZ inventor’ - did you mean Steve Ryan? From the info on his site (www.biosfuel.org) He seems to be mixing up a water brew from waste oil. Dont know much more than this…

‘but water injection appears to have much potential’ - good luck with it - perhaps you can keep us informed via the web!

There are a few inventors experimenting with fuel/water mixtures, but there is also controversy as well. And, of course, there are already devices on the market that spray water directly into the air filter.

‘actually making HHO gas then inducting isn’t looking useful’ - as you probably already know, making HHo by conventional means, ie DC current, requires an enourmous amount of electricity to produce meaningful quantities of gas, and is usually very inefficient due to loss of energy as waste heat in the cell’s resistance (I^2R losses).

So, this is why, for my research dollar, I would probably lean more toward investigating resonant, rather than static, water separation methods.

However, If you are considering going along the more conservative research path into biofuels then may I recommend a book & DVD called “Alcohol can Be A Gas” by David Blume (www.alcoholcanbeagas.com). He has reseached ethanol as a clean renewable fuel since the oil peak scare of the 70’s.

I have a copy myself and it is quite detailed. Blume claims big-business tried to prevent its release. But now it is out. He also claims that Rockerfeller backed prohibition to get rid of alcohol so he could sell his waste products as motor fuel!

If I had a choice between (stored) hydrogen and ethanol then I would most probably opt for the later because it is safer to handle, requires least modification to the vehicle, and most importantly: is renewable.

In short, ethanol is liquid sunshine, and the emissions are super low!

Best research,
Peter Hunter.

]]> By: Brendan http://joecell.freeblogit.com/2008/03/22/a-critical-look-at-the-joe-cell-phenomenon/#comment-7 Brendan Tue, 15 Jul 2008 23:47:52 +0000 http://joecell.freeblogit.com/2008/03/22/a-critical-look-at-the-joe-cell-phenomenon/#comment-7 I'm currently working in with a retired inventor from the UK (I'm in New Zealand) to see if there is any way of getting HHO gas to usefully supplement a vehicles' fuel and get repeatable economy gains. So far, actually making HHO gas then inducting isn't looking useful - but water injection appears to have much potential. However to the topic at hand, have a look at this you-tube item aired on 60 minutes here in New Zealand about a NZ inventor. It's worth noting that since that time, the guy has moved more toward biofuels that don't so much involve hydrogen. Note the hydrocarbon emissions in this item. Seems to me he's onto something, but can't quite crack the fuel to work exactly as we need it to. Ideas/opinions please? I’m currently working in with a retired inventor from the UK (I’m in New Zealand) to see if there is any way of getting HHO gas to usefully supplement a vehicles’ fuel and get repeatable economy gains. So far, actually making HHO gas then inducting isn’t looking useful - but water injection appears to have much potential. However to the topic at hand, have a look at this you-tube item aired on 60 minutes here in New Zealand about a NZ inventor. It’s worth noting that since that time, the guy has moved more toward biofuels that don’t so much involve hydrogen. Note the hydrocarbon emissions in this item. Seems to me he’s onto something, but can’t quite crack the fuel to work exactly as we need it to. Ideas/opinions please?

]]> By: John W. Ratcliff http://joecell.freeblogit.com/2008/03/22/a-critical-look-at-the-joe-cell-phenomenon/#comment-5 John W. Ratcliff Wed, 04 Jun 2008 04:53:49 +0000 http://joecell.freeblogit.com/2008/03/22/a-critical-look-at-the-joe-cell-phenomenon/#comment-5 You have a lot more patience than I ever had. For real entertainment value you should follow Archer Quinn's gravity wheel or the infamous Hutchison effect. I actually signed up to a Joe Cell newsgroup for about three weeks. It was a bizarre and surreal experience to say the least. It came off as a Heaven's Gate style cult of weird groupies all sharing new age orgone energy with one another. I am pleased to announce that rational thought has left the building.... You have a lot more patience than I ever had. For real entertainment value you should follow Archer Quinn’s gravity wheel or the infamous Hutchison effect.

I actually signed up to a Joe Cell newsgroup for about three weeks. It was a bizarre and surreal experience to say the least. It came off as a Heaven’s Gate style cult of weird groupies all sharing new age orgone energy with one another.

I am pleased to announce that rational thought has left the building….

]]> By: James Randi http://joecell.freeblogit.com/2008/03/22/a-critical-look-at-the-joe-cell-phenomenon/#comment-3 James Randi Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:49:58 +0000 http://joecell.freeblogit.com/2008/03/22/a-critical-look-at-the-joe-cell-phenomenon/#comment-3 I don't ses why such an intricate analysis has been conducted on this video. There are countless ways the effect can be created, no one is given any samples of materials, or is allowed to examine the conditions... Why be so concerned about a demo over which you have no control, and a protocol to which you cannot contribute...? I don’t ses why such an intricate analysis has been conducted on this video. There are countless ways the effect can be created, no one is given any samples of materials, or is allowed to examine the conditions…

Why be so concerned about a demo over which you have no control, and a protocol to which you cannot contribute…?

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